[Dis]The human problem (17)

1 Name: Anonymage : 2015-12-13 01:13 [Del]

In this thread I would like to discuss the human problem, and potential final solutions to it. As well as things generally relating to the future of humanity and the nature of humans in general. Please feel free to post anything you believe relates to the theme even loosely, I don't wish this thread to be too narrow in focus, I am just asking questions that are weighing on my mind at the moment.

I believe (perhaps incorrectly) that many here are of the pessimistic persuasion and believe that existence for humans (or maybe any sapient being) is a negative and should be ended. To this end many wizards are anti-natalist, or even pro omnicide. To this end I would like to disuses your views of the end of humanity. Do you see it as desirable? When do you believe it will come, soon, or in the far flung future after eons of misery? What do you believe will cause it? Nuclear war, AI, Death of the universe, starvation of resources and collapse, humanity finally wising up and voluntarily going extinct, or what-have-you? Do you think there will ever be a time when any one man will be able to decide the collective future of the race?

Personally I don't know enough to say, but my hope is that it would be sooner rather than later. Furthermore it is my most foolish and optimistic hope that the end of our race will be accomplished not through total destruction, but creating something far better than we can ever be. Be that AI, or even perhaps a synthetic organism who can be better than it's progenitors. Though I fear that may not be possible for many centuries yet. In any case if we are ever to stop the suffering of trillions of potential humans, it must be soon. If humanity ever manages to spread to other planets and stars like the pathogen it is, then the odds of solving the problem in a timely decrease dramatically.

2 Name: Anonymage : 2015-12-13 05:50 [Del]

I have an utopia for the future of mankind. Complete mechanization and automation of labor. The end of forced labor and redundant jobs. Humanity finally reaching the point where it can be completely sustained by robots and computers. I believe this could be achieved in great part, even today. This would free people for doing whatever they want. Universal basic income. I believe we waste a lot of brains on the current system. We have billions of people brainwashed to make profit, instead of actual progress. We create specialized slaves and consumers with the current education, instead of dreamers and makers of progress. We can't even produce decent citizens anymore.

This would change with my utopia. Education would be a heavily scientific on the praxis side, and platonic/aristotelic on the other, in order to create citizens for a bright future. The general idea it is to be a platonic republic geared towards space exploration and humanistic values at the same time. A mix of the old ethical, philosophical concepts for men with scientific pursuit added to it. Hopefully this approach would lead to a better humanity; basic needs completely covered, a sense of value for the individual and an universe of possibilities. To allow dreamers to exist again. To have cosmonaut philosophers. The end of the slave-consumer men with all its lack of values and shit existence. That would be the primary goal.

I have a tendency to be conservative towards genetic studies. It's fine to eliminate disease with it, but trying to make all men smarter for example, it concerns me as intelligence is not an easily measurable unit, and trying to enhancing intelligence through genetics it might just end enhancing one specific idea of what intelligence is, killing other forms that are not yet covered. Of course experimenting would be allowed, but the application on the actual population would have to be discussed thoroughly. The discussion would not involve any need to sell products or any shit like that so I believe its conclusions would be more beneficial, even if just for educational purposes. When you eliminate any commercial need from a discussion, it's a lot easier to reach the truth on the matter, or at least easier to get close to it. The important thing in all the problems that might arise withing this utopia would be to not allow stupidity, vileness and regression grow in any shape or form.

I think things like marriage laws would end, and also the family unit (as is in the republic of Plato). Parents don't have any responsibility or propriety over their individual children, but to all children and the future generation as a whole. Family units are abolished in favor of a long educational program that would take the first 25 years of a person's life. Simply put, family would change to a concept of citizenship. You don't have a family, everyone is your brother. People of course might choose to live together and be as free as they want with their personal lives, but children are to be given away at the age of 1 or so. This sound harsh in present society, but I believe it's for the best in long term.

I don't know, if anyone reads this and iS interested in how something specific would work on this society please ask away.

3 Name: Anonymage : 2015-12-13 06:04 [Del]

>>2 here again, I forgot to comment on this;


>many here are of the pessimistic persuasion and believe that existence for humans (or maybe any sapient being) is a negative and should be ended. To this end many wizards are anti-natalist, or even pro omnicide. To this end I would like to disuses your views of the end of humanity.

I agree with them in part. I believe that lives we have today as slave-consumers must end. This system is the cause of endless pain and lack of purpose for those who realize there's no real value on humans anymore. I disagree that this pain is on root of human consciousness though. A man built in a different system (like the one I write on >>2) would not find that the solution to mankind is extinction. This pain we feel now is superficial, caused by the way our diseased, plagued society works.

4 Name: Anonymage : 2015-12-13 12:19 [Del]

Why care about humanity in general? They're all normals, let them suffer or be happy in their own ignorance.

5 Name: Anonymage : 2015-12-13 16:11 [Del]

From humanity comes wizards, many wizards suffer because of normals and life itself, to allow it to continue will cause many wizards to suffer as well.

6 Name: Anonymage : 2016-01-13 10:30 [Del]

>Gotten pessimistic enough that I cheer for the villain
>Want people to die
>Love it when people get sued for stupid things and they lose money

In a world of ours, we want people to be sensitive and care, but we also want people to be able to take death with a straight face. Still, we don't like those people.

I also doubt wizards are any better than other people. All people are rotten. I'm rotten, wizchan is rotten, society is rotten, and animals are rotten.

The final solution is mass extermination of everyone.

7 Name: Anonymage : 2016-01-13 17:57 [Del]

The human population is unsustainable, and in its current state should go extinct before it wipes out everything else. If we were to have a sustainable global population, and one where the cultures they exist in are ones that treat everyone with dignity and respect then the world would be less grim I think. As it stands though, nothing will change. People are too obsessed with capitalism and extracting too many resources and the local environment be damned, or driving the newest and loudest car despite its emissions. Why do they love it? Because it allows them to feed their power trip. All the normans think that being on top means treating 'lesser' things as trash rather than having the responsibility to nurture them and create a beautiful world even if you aren't super rich or with less status.

8 Name: Anonymage : 2016-01-19 14:05 [Del]

I don't really care as long as I'm not in it. Which will come with time.

9 Name: Anonymage : 2016-02-06 11:50 [Del]


So how do we get there from here? Do we need a collapse?

What is the best way to colonise space?

What incentive do Normans have to strive for utopia?

Imo humans are a self destructive viral species that cannot think collectively and eventually collapse under there own overpopulation.

10 Name: Anonymage : 2016-02-12 08:57 [Del]

I feel like utopia cannot exist, so long as there is individual thought. Even if every person was a completely rational person, somehow we would mess up somewhere and create pain and suffering. We do not deserve this Earth.

I wish there was a higher being, a sort of God, preventing self awareness to exist. So while ending suffering may not be possible without returning all to nothing, at least the inhabitants of this world cannot reflect on their pain.

11 Name: Anonymage : 2016-02-14 17:45 [Del]

There is a very simple solution to this problem OP. Simply continue the course we have been traveling. Normies are heading us all towards extinction sure enough. No special effort needs to be made to bring about the extermination of humanity.

12 Name: Anonymage : 2016-02-17 12:47 [Del]

I know how you feel. I feel the same way, and I'm very conflicted about the answer.
The conflict is the conflict between two types of thinking. Should you take revenge upon society, or accept human nature? Does it mean anything to help, given that you can't expect to be helped?

I suffer from a lot of conflicting emotions.
On the one hand, there's empathy, the desire for fairness and brotherhood. These feelings exist because I was treated unfair, and I can relate to those who are victims.
On the other hand, there's the understanding that if you help a victim, if you give them what wasn't given to you, they might become stronger than you and become the aggressor.
The same way cats look cute, but if they were 500 pound beasts, they'd kill you for fun and play with your dead body.

However regardless of your willingness to assist the weak, you still feel like punishing the strong.
Both of those emotions still allow for a partial desire to "purge" society from the undeniably bad members.
But right now you can't do it. In order to do it, you need to obtain power. And this is where it becomes apparent why nothing matters.
You realize that in order to obtain power you must kill part of your empathy. You realize that the victims will always exist.
On top of that, now that you have power and feel strong, you don't feel the need to punish. You feel safe, most likely you're fine and happy with your life.
So you stop caring. Eventually you might try sometimes to punish the "bad" people and help the "good" ones, but only in a mild manner, without getting too involved or risking anything.

Human nature is ugly, but don't forget you're a human too. Embrace it and try to become what you envision to be a good human, all within the limitations of our nature.

13 Name: Anonymage : 2016-02-21 10:01 [Del]

Not to mention the concept of "utopia" greatly differs from person to person.

14 Name: Anonymage : 2016-02-26 02:27 [Del]

Human existence is full of contradictions, we are part of nature but exist as separate from it, nature for us is something to be conquered, this antagonistic attitude is what causes us to literally "shit where we eat" in other words to pollute and so on, is all an attempt to overcome nature, we are well aware as a species of the precariousness of the human condition and yet there's little we can do about it except to invent "gods" and attribute to them the qualities we wish we as humans had. But there's got to be something that redeems humans, something that makes human history not be the snafu that it is, I don't know what it is but if there's a solution to the human problem we're not going to find it within the current social arrangement, wageslavery has got to be abolished, profit-centered social relations have got to be abolished, the point is to "liberate" as much human potential that's currently wasted on the capitalist mode of production to work on the real problems besieging humanity, like ecology and so on, I'm not saying this is the solution to the human problem, the contradictions still remain, but it's the start of the path towards solving it, capitalism has got to go, we can figure out everything else later.

Of course you can always talk about destroying the world as one possible solution, but I can guarantee you, if it came to it no one would do it, say we had a button and someone said to you, "press it and humanity will be wiped out", faced with the choice in real life I wouldn't press it, I hate my life but wouldn't press it, maybe I still have some remnant of faith in the human race, that makes me an idiot, right? But shit I know I wouldn't press it.

15 Name: Anonymage : 2016-03-07 13:13 [Del]

Humanity is in quite the pickle.

16 Name: Anonymage : 2019-10-16 11:49 [Del]

youre right, a utopia cant exist because if i ever get into a uptopia, im gonna start lighting fires until the whole thing is burned to the ground. you can get rid of me, but there are so many more people like me its impossible for a utopia to survive.

17 Name: Anonymage : 2019-10-16 12:57 [Del]

Americans love the police state, but they don't seem able to understand that people try to break out of prisons.

People deal with tyranny in different ways.

Americans during the Revolutionary War were moral and independent and fought for freedom.

Americans in the Civil War fought for liberty.

Rome was an immoral bankrupt warmongering police state and had a population that only cared about bread and circuses and collapsed.

Russians in the USSR gave up and the Soviet Union collapsed.

What happened to tyrants like King Charles, Caligula, Mussolini, Gaddafi, and Ceausescu?

Americans today are immoral, depraved, degraded, divided, distracted, dependent on welfare, and come from broken families. The US is flooded by refugees and illegal immigrants. Americans have food, AC, beer, weed, cars, and homes and feel like they have too much to lose to fight for freedom.

Americans have the Internet now, but it is wiretapped.

Some say Americans may rebel when guns are confiscated, the Communists win in 2020 or 2024, they get sent to the concentration camps, or the US Ponzi economy collapses, but what if Americans never revolt?

What if Americans will never be sent to the concentration camps?

Knowing what will happen next is difficult, but the US is clearly collapsing. The US is a bankrupt warmongering police state and voting won't work because the USA is not a democracy.

One idea to fix the US is to wake people up.

Educate Americans up by talking about how the elites control the government, media, Hollywood, and Wall Street. Tell people to buy guns, gold, and food. Keep it simple. Be friendly. Listen. Ask open-ended questions. Avoid talking about odd theories like Bigfoot, Freemasons, or UFO's. You can praise places like Poland and Montana and criticize countries like Kenya and Mexico. Don't force people to adopt your point of view. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink.

Try to wake as many people as you can. Don't get burned out or give up and just become another useless zombie. Americans must resist as long as they can.

Print up flyers that explain the US debt, wars, and tyranny. Leave them in bus stations, train stations, airports, and waiting rooms.

Patriots who are awake and stay silent today are no different than the elites, Gestapo, soldiers, politicians, and sheep who support US wars, debt, and tyranny.

Only 5% of Americans believe in freedom, but this isn't a problem because only 3% of Americans fought the British during the American Revolution. Once the war became serious, Americans started to support the rebels.

Maybe the most realistic option for the Libertarian now seems to be to leave. Save yourself. Go Galt, go off the grid, dropout, and move abroad. Avoid taxes.

Pass the word.

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